Dormant Memories of LDS Placement Years
Subject: Dormant Memories of LDS Indian Placement Years
Date: Apr 26 09:01
Author: theSam!!
Someone off this board, who's son is writing a paper of sorts, contacted me.
I answered, eventually, his questions posed.
And it took a couple of days.
It took so long because I had to go through so much pain before I wrote anything, and then had to remember more dormant memories before I finished the lengthy questionaire and sent it back.
But here's something I'd like to share, for those of us that have memories that drive us STILL, today, in what ever capacity.
As posted at RFM / Recovery From Mormonism dot org, in the Bulletin Boards.
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4-What difficulties arose in this experience? What impact do you feel it made on the child placed in your home? What impact did it make on your family? Do you know what happened to the child afterwards?
Difficulties,
the Usual bouts of homesickness was the first difficulty I know of, and saw in other placement program students right away a few hours after leaving our groups families in McLaughlin, South Dakota.
We all mostly were English speaking, Americanized, “used to White people” native students so you know that any problems that arose wouldn’t be anything that most of our lds placement program handlers couldn’t handle.
I wasn’t used to white people taking a genuine interest in my welfare at school, so personally, my reading and writing skills were lacking, but my 3rd grade teacher and another school therapist did help out.
I was shy too, but over the years in the placement program, the small tasks of speaking in church or speaking in front of classmates did help me start to over come my shyness.
Impact on the child,
I do know that my presence in my First foster family home became a problem for a couple of Older foster siblings of mine,
At the time I didn’t notice that any love and affection showed to me by my foster parents caused jealousy in my two older siblings, my older foster brother and his older sister, as I was in 3rd grade and my brother was in 4th and the sister was in 6th grade.
Sometimes these two siblings of mine would gang up on me at home when I was left alone with them.
They were vocal and loud with each other in speech a lot and that disrupted my homework tasks in my private room,
They would often go to the Panel box and shut off Power to my room, and often when I was bathing or outside (the House) they would shut power down to the bath room or be obvious about going into my room and rummaging around in my stuff,
These two siblings of mine would sometimes attack me physically, punching me in the gut and slapping my face, and they’d make disparaging remarks to me about my heritage and my culture,
It wasn’t that any of the prejudice or abuse that may have occured to me from white lds mormons at school or church in similar fashion did hurt, it did a little,
but you just don’t expect your Foster siblings to do that to you repeatedly during your 2nd and 3rd year staying with them.
I started to wet the bed during the 2nd year and my foster Mom found out about the abuse that occured to me from my siblings and for a time it did stop,
but during my 3rd year with this family it picked up again, but on a more Silent level, as my older lds foster sibling (my sister) never spoke to me any more and never treated me like a person.
this treatment was bad i suppose, but in my (LATER) time of living in Seattle and holding two professional licenses of Cosmetology and Massage therapy and of endlessly, tirelessly promoting myself and SEEKING OUT the targetMarket of my choosing,
Which at the time was WHITE women, Married, Stable minded and clean Living.
My actions were spurred by a Motivation not seen by anyone around me.
Cos a part of me is still a young child somewhere inside a large immaculate home and there are ALL my older female foster siblings being racist and vocal,
being mean and harassing in nature towards me and I’m crying.
I am in the dark of my room because they shut the power to my room,
I can’t play piano much because they laugh at me and show derision and scorn and often attack me physically.
One of my older foster sisters was learning to Jazz and Tap dance, and she’d do ballet too, and sometimes would be friendly and nice to me to get me away from doing my homework.
And she would start to be sexual in her gyrations and movement. I suppose that at that time she was starting to be hormonal and be a typical teenager.
No matter what my older sister did, no matter what my older brother did, they were never nice to me.
So it was a shock to me later on after finding out that my older sister was temple married and I even met my older foster brother at the MTC when I was doing laundry in one of the utility rooms.
Impact on your family,
I suppose that I already answered this one for you but as far as my own mother hearing about what I went through at the end of each school year.
That is the reason that I stopped going back on Placement for 4 consecutive years.
As for this Treatment that was given to me by my two older foster siblings, it reared it’s ugly head when “I” in turn got mad at my own younger sister and brother (before they got older and both went on placement)
I take comfort that I never repeatedly gut punched and kicked, or bit or otherwise hit my own birth siblings.
I take comfort that I never kicked them out of the house in winter and threw their homework out the door,
I never ever was cruel to animals by sabotaging feed and water efforts, and unlocking gates and chasing livestock, etc causing ME to stay out longer and “clean up the problem”
I never did that to my own birth siblings, thank God for that.
As for Question number 4 in regards to my 2nd foster family,
I won’t answer these things because of the Worse abuse and treatment I experienced by the foster Dad.
What happened later?,
my first Foster family would often speak of a couple of female lamanite students that they had BEFORE they took me in, and they were sad that these females chose to stay at home on the reservation and get pregnant out of wedlock and otherwise stray away from church,
Even my 2nd lds placement family pined alot about prior placement students they had who chose to NOT RETURN to the placement program and continue in school and in church,
In spite of the BAD and the good that happened to me on placement program,
I consider myself a success story.
I served an lds mission, I attended one of the lds colleges for at least a year before signing up for military service,
For the most part I have kept myself clean living and I work!!
I don’t leech off the welfare system, I take care of myself and I stay out of trouble.
I know of at least a dozen other lamanite placement kids that turned out just like me.
Most are my relatives, some are still with the church.
I Am Not.
And we all are doing good in life so far.
We like to look back and think that at that time, the church did help us to become something better than what we could have been had we stayed ON the reservation. That the lds church opened up a lot of doors for us indigenous children.
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I'd probably go drinking now, but I'm not that far into drinking to do so. d:oP
I can face these memories today sober minded.
And I say Never Again.
What ever drives you my exMo and Never Mo frenz, if it makes you better and keep you away from theMorg then let it be so.
But soon I hope to forget these things.
carry on.
lovs,
theSam!!, abel-my temple name
Samuel Lee Flyinghorse
Anchorage, AK
currently an Army "FutureSoldier",
signed up to leave for bootcamp and advanced infantry training in July 2009,
-alaska village tales-
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Subject: The One Who Asked
Date: Apr 26 10:14
Author: Abigail
I'm so sorry for the pain this process of helping out my son has caused you. I shouldn't have asked you and wouldn't have if I had known how painful it would be. I am crying for you and your experience and am thankful that you came out of it with a feeling of success.
Good luck FutureSoldier and stay safe.
Abigail
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Subject: Hey, there! I know a Din'e woman who was part of the IPP...
Date: Apr 26 10:26
Author: Beth
and she is not LDS. I don't know if she was baptized, etc., but when I met her, she was involved in Native rights and still bore scars from her time in the IPP. She has even been interviewed by NPR about her experiences. She's pretty visible, vocal and accessible, and I'm sure she would welcome contact from you. Would you like me to try to put you in touch with her?
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Subject: Re: Hey, there! I know a Din'e woman who was part of the IPP...
Date: Apr 26 10:41
Author: Abigail
Yes, that would be awesome and my son would appreciate it.
Can you give me the info on the board or do you want my email address?
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Subject: I'll email her and see what she says...
Date: Apr 26 10:57
Author: Beth
She was pretty damaged by the whole thing, so I don't know if she'd want to discuss it with someone who hadn't been through it. I'm sorry if I replied in the wrong place, but my question was directed to theSam!! and not to you. I hope I don't sound exclusionary or rude, but some of those kids were so traumatized that they went back to the rez and never left if they could avoid it. My friend became a vocal activist, and even though she gave an interview to NPR, I'm not so sure she's in an emotional place where she wants to talk about it anymore. Case in point: I've known her since 1999, and we have never discussed her time in the IPP. The only reason I know she was part of the program is because a mutual friend told me and told me how horrible her experience had been (in generalities -- no specifics).
So, please feel free to give me your email address, explain your son's project, and I'll reach out to her. Maybe have him write the email that I can forward to her.
Here's a link to the NPR story (a lot of the participants decided to stay in the church): http://www.homelands.org/worlds/saints.html
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Subject: Re: I'll email her and see what she says...
Date: Apr 26 11:06
Author: Abigail
I debated whether your reply was for me or theSam!! My mistake. I'll just have my son go to the link you cited and let him take if from there. I don't want to be responsible for bringing pain to anyone else. Thanks for the information.
Abigail
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Subject: No problem -- and seriously, I don't mind contacting her
Date: Apr 26 11:26
Author: Beth
Also know that the producers of the NPR program had a hard time finding non-LDS IPP folks to interview, so the program is a little skewed because most of the folks they found stayed in the church and bear their testimonies. It's sad to hear some of them say that they accepted that their brown skin was punishment for their ancestors turning away from God. There's a hint of self-loathing in some of what they say. And the fact that they were taught to not participate in their native religious ceremonies when they went home for the summer put some of them in a bind. They had to choose to turn their backs on their cultures or to lie to their foster families, and they were pretty young to be put in that position.
If your son wants to write a balanced paper, I am more than happy to try to get him in touch with my friend. My only caveat is that she might not be willing to talk about it. But that's her decision to make, not mine. Please do feel free to give me your email address, and I'll write to you off the board (my email address reveals my last name). And *you* would not be causing her pain. That already happened, so don't feel responsible for how she might react. Okay?
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Subject: Another thing he might do is check out Indian Country Today...
Date: Apr 26 12:19
Author: Beth
http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/ They may have written an article about the program, or they might let him write a letter to the editor requesting interviews with IPP participants.
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Subject: Re: Another thing he might do is check out Indian Country Today...
Date: Apr 26 18:38
Author: Abigail
Beth, I will direct my son to this thread and let him give you his email if he decides he wants to. Thank you for your help and information.
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Subject: Poor Sammy....(((hugz))) ...
Date: Apr 26 11:27
Author: notamomo
There was an IPP girl who lived with the family of a peer of mine (I wouldn't go so far as to call her a friend) that was in my ward.
We were all in YW together. I don't think she was treated very well by that family and other rude, white Mo-Mo children on the playground (this is in Utard, of course) teased her and excluded her.
She was very shy. I was her friend, but then I was pretty much shunned by all the stuck-up bishopprick daughters too.
Sam, my heart goes out to you.
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Subject: Re: Dormant Memories of LDS Indian Placement Years
Date: Apr 26 12:11
Author: theSam!!
Abigail.
It's ok. You've done nothing wrong. So don't worry.
Beth.
I've seen the NPR link and listened to your friend.
But the site link is saved on my OLD tower, and not on this newer pc tower of mine,
I'm IBM raised!! and like towers, I'm not a Mac person!! d:oP
anyways.
I contacted these people back in 2001 or 02 and got a reply from someone, we'll contact you if we're interested, or something like that.
No worrys about anything. Cos, I'm alright and I'm sure the rest of us IPP students are alright, because the Initial pain is past and what lingers is just discomfort that we've put away, and I'll put mine away again.
Remember to not contribute to other childrens pain if you can help it. cos they'll remember it forever.
Thanks to all concerned.
I'mma walk to mcdonalds and eat some breakfast, enjoy the spring weather that is now Alaska.
take care everyone.
*hugs*
lovs,
theSam!!
slflyinghorse
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Subject: The Sam!!: I just wish you peace! n/t
Date: Apr 26 18:40
Author: Abigail
Mail Address:
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Subject: Thanks for sharing Sam!
Date: Apr 26 18:33
Author: Diapason
All of us learn from you. It is important for white people (including me) to know and understand the difficulties that Native Americans experienced at the hands of white people. You are a remarkable person. I am sorry for what you went through. You have handled your difficulties with dignity. I salute you. Thanks again for sharing and helping me to be more aware.
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Subject: Re: Dormant Memories of LDS Indian Placement Years
Date: Apr 26 23:31
Author: IMNOMO
Sam,
While I am a regular reader of the posts on this site, it has been awhile since I have seen anything worth replying to, but I found your story worth the read and the reply.
First, let me say thank you. Your choice to become part of the military in this time of uncertainty shows your deep level of commitment to defending our beautiful country and the people who occupy it - people who have frequently been less than kind and supporitve of Our Native Peoples, of the military and all things your rich history represents.
Second, as my screen name implies I am a Nevermo who grew up in Utah. My perception of the "laminite" program is very different than yours, and I hope you will indulge me. I have many friends - both LDS and (now) not LDS friends that have ties to this program. Some as "laminites" some as host families. And over the years, I have been able to dig, discuss and digest more than I ever wanted to know about this part of LDS life.
As I listen to the stories told by my friends (Navajo), their stories sound very similar to your yours - abuse, pain, molestation, rape, at the hands of the familes that were to care for them, and end in the same way, with a justification or an its-ok-because-it-could-have-been-worse-if-I-had-stayed-on-the-reservation ending. Hmmm....
I say no, maybe, perhaps...in all matters related to LDS, Inc. you were duped and dumped. And for this you have my sympathies. You were (IMO) a pawn on a very unlevel playing field.
In the same way the natives were treated during the settlement of whites in America, you were treated by the church. "Indians are savages. They need to be cultured." "They are dumb, we need to educate them." Etc, etc. We know these things to be untrue - our native peoples read, wrote, spoke, communicated with each other. They had their own languages, gathered, hunted and cooked their own food. They had remedies that the white man never knew - and has now only begun searching for. (Look up quinine...)
You deserved better, and you sell yourself (and your people) short to imply that reservation life = a godless life of alcoholism. I agree that you need to stay away from the hooch - so do I, and so do the millions of other people that may have a propesity for abuse (whatever the cause!). But had you stayed on the reservation, close to the people of your birth, you would have had all the same opportunites that you have chosen to exercise now (military life, family, etc.) and you could do it with a better understading of who you are to pass to your children. Your language, your customs, your art, your science, your heritage. Go back now, take the time to learn it - talk to your grandfathers and the ancients, you will find them there waiting to talk back to you. Visit museums where old collections are held - and don't let the white man's labels tell you the function of the objects at hand- for they don't know, for they never used them.
My criticisms of the "Laminite" programs are many...
1) There is no such thing as a "Laminite" and for God's sake drop this word that was made up by Joseph Smith from your vocabulary.
2) The program was one-sided, "We must save the Indians!" all the while tying their rich history, language and culture to the railroad tracks to be salvaged later. Their perception is that the white mans ways were better. Yikes!They NEVER took the time to learn about the children they fostered and communicated their history to them.
3) All were physically abused in some way. Many sexually.
4) The LDS did not take in the Natives because they wanted to help them - they did it for the "blessings." This is self-serving. They learned NOTHING of the native culture of the children they fostered.
5) My girlfirend and I scoff at the way some were treated, and we simply refer the children as "pet Indians". It is a slam to the hosts not the hosted, for they treated the children as dogs - collect the affections and then turn them out. Do not include them in family photos, do not take them on vacations, do not do more than is required by the church. And for god's sakes don't let them scratch themselves in public - in other words be who you really were/are. Parade the pretty pony for the public, then send it to the basement to sleep without light or heat.
Do you see what I am saying? You are worth more that what you have been given - by our government, by your parents, by your tribe, by your church, by your host family. Find yourself - your real self - and you will find you are MAGNIFICENT - a man worthy of GREAT things. You are not a laminite - you are a Native American of the ______tribe of peoples. Indeed, if you were Navajo you would simply be Dine = THE PEOPLE. The only ones. Now, that's powerful.
Soar high, Flyinghorse, your journay to the stars is only now beginning.
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Subject: Re: Dormant Memories of LDS Indian Placement Years
Date: Apr 27 00:01
Author: anon
Samuel, you are a success. You now have the wisdom to go back in memory and face the pain. You can talk to and nurture that little child in the dark. You pobably don't realize how your pain from your past effects your behavior today. Now that you have allowed that pain to resurface, you can sort through it and dismantle it. This task was a good thing.
Good Luck, Soldier!
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Subject: Free Cab Ride to the Top . . . (nt)
Date: Apr 27 16:51
Author: SL Cabbie
Mail Address:
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Subject: Re: Dormant Memories of LDS Indian Placement Years
Date: Apr 27 18:48
Author: Leah
From what I could see as a kid in California, the Lamanite program placed a terrible strain on the fmilies who participated.
These families were mostly guilted into taking in the kids, when the last thing they needed was more mouths to feed and more responsibility.
It also caused additional stress on many marriages.
My mother totally refused to do it, although the bishop kept hounding them about. Her attitude was that if she's wanted more than three kids she would have had them lol.
My mother's close friend already had seven kids and she could not say no to the morg.Big mistake.
The girl they got was sexually experienced and kept coming on to boys,it was a mess.
My mother was too nice to tell her "I told you so" lol.
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Subject: Re: Dormant Memories of LDS Indian Placement Years
Date: Apr 27 21:25
Author: TOPPER N/T
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Subject: Cheers
Date: Apr 28 00:16
Author: Gidget
I rarely post, but read off and on. Your posts are always an inspiration. (I daresay poetry most of the time.) May good luck follow you in all of your ambitions.
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Date: Apr 26 09:01
Author: theSam!!
Someone off this board, who's son is writing a paper of sorts, contacted me.
I answered, eventually, his questions posed.
And it took a couple of days.
It took so long because I had to go through so much pain before I wrote anything, and then had to remember more dormant memories before I finished the lengthy questionaire and sent it back.
But here's something I'd like to share, for those of us that have memories that drive us STILL, today, in what ever capacity.
As posted at RFM / Recovery From Mormonism dot org, in the Bulletin Boards.
-----------------------------
4-What difficulties arose in this experience? What impact do you feel it made on the child placed in your home? What impact did it make on your family? Do you know what happened to the child afterwards?
Difficulties,
the Usual bouts of homesickness was the first difficulty I know of, and saw in other placement program students right away a few hours after leaving our groups families in McLaughlin, South Dakota.
We all mostly were English speaking, Americanized, “used to White people” native students so you know that any problems that arose wouldn’t be anything that most of our lds placement program handlers couldn’t handle.
I wasn’t used to white people taking a genuine interest in my welfare at school, so personally, my reading and writing skills were lacking, but my 3rd grade teacher and another school therapist did help out.
I was shy too, but over the years in the placement program, the small tasks of speaking in church or speaking in front of classmates did help me start to over come my shyness.
Impact on the child,
I do know that my presence in my First foster family home became a problem for a couple of Older foster siblings of mine,
At the time I didn’t notice that any love and affection showed to me by my foster parents caused jealousy in my two older siblings, my older foster brother and his older sister, as I was in 3rd grade and my brother was in 4th and the sister was in 6th grade.
Sometimes these two siblings of mine would gang up on me at home when I was left alone with them.
They were vocal and loud with each other in speech a lot and that disrupted my homework tasks in my private room,
They would often go to the Panel box and shut off Power to my room, and often when I was bathing or outside (the House) they would shut power down to the bath room or be obvious about going into my room and rummaging around in my stuff,
These two siblings of mine would sometimes attack me physically, punching me in the gut and slapping my face, and they’d make disparaging remarks to me about my heritage and my culture,
It wasn’t that any of the prejudice or abuse that may have occured to me from white lds mormons at school or church in similar fashion did hurt, it did a little,
but you just don’t expect your Foster siblings to do that to you repeatedly during your 2nd and 3rd year staying with them.
I started to wet the bed during the 2nd year and my foster Mom found out about the abuse that occured to me from my siblings and for a time it did stop,
but during my 3rd year with this family it picked up again, but on a more Silent level, as my older lds foster sibling (my sister) never spoke to me any more and never treated me like a person.
this treatment was bad i suppose, but in my (LATER) time of living in Seattle and holding two professional licenses of Cosmetology and Massage therapy and of endlessly, tirelessly promoting myself and SEEKING OUT the targetMarket of my choosing,
Which at the time was WHITE women, Married, Stable minded and clean Living.
My actions were spurred by a Motivation not seen by anyone around me.
Cos a part of me is still a young child somewhere inside a large immaculate home and there are ALL my older female foster siblings being racist and vocal,
being mean and harassing in nature towards me and I’m crying.
I am in the dark of my room because they shut the power to my room,
I can’t play piano much because they laugh at me and show derision and scorn and often attack me physically.
One of my older foster sisters was learning to Jazz and Tap dance, and she’d do ballet too, and sometimes would be friendly and nice to me to get me away from doing my homework.
And she would start to be sexual in her gyrations and movement. I suppose that at that time she was starting to be hormonal and be a typical teenager.
No matter what my older sister did, no matter what my older brother did, they were never nice to me.
So it was a shock to me later on after finding out that my older sister was temple married and I even met my older foster brother at the MTC when I was doing laundry in one of the utility rooms.
Impact on your family,
I suppose that I already answered this one for you but as far as my own mother hearing about what I went through at the end of each school year.
That is the reason that I stopped going back on Placement for 4 consecutive years.
As for this Treatment that was given to me by my two older foster siblings, it reared it’s ugly head when “I” in turn got mad at my own younger sister and brother (before they got older and both went on placement)
I take comfort that I never repeatedly gut punched and kicked, or bit or otherwise hit my own birth siblings.
I take comfort that I never kicked them out of the house in winter and threw their homework out the door,
I never ever was cruel to animals by sabotaging feed and water efforts, and unlocking gates and chasing livestock, etc causing ME to stay out longer and “clean up the problem”
I never did that to my own birth siblings, thank God for that.
As for Question number 4 in regards to my 2nd foster family,
I won’t answer these things because of the Worse abuse and treatment I experienced by the foster Dad.
What happened later?,
my first Foster family would often speak of a couple of female lamanite students that they had BEFORE they took me in, and they were sad that these females chose to stay at home on the reservation and get pregnant out of wedlock and otherwise stray away from church,
Even my 2nd lds placement family pined alot about prior placement students they had who chose to NOT RETURN to the placement program and continue in school and in church,
In spite of the BAD and the good that happened to me on placement program,
I consider myself a success story.
I served an lds mission, I attended one of the lds colleges for at least a year before signing up for military service,
For the most part I have kept myself clean living and I work!!
I don’t leech off the welfare system, I take care of myself and I stay out of trouble.
I know of at least a dozen other lamanite placement kids that turned out just like me.
Most are my relatives, some are still with the church.
I Am Not.
And we all are doing good in life so far.
We like to look back and think that at that time, the church did help us to become something better than what we could have been had we stayed ON the reservation. That the lds church opened up a lot of doors for us indigenous children.
----------------------------
I'd probably go drinking now, but I'm not that far into drinking to do so. d:oP
I can face these memories today sober minded.
And I say Never Again.
What ever drives you my exMo and Never Mo frenz, if it makes you better and keep you away from theMorg then let it be so.
But soon I hope to forget these things.
carry on.
lovs,
theSam!!, abel-my temple name
Samuel Lee Flyinghorse
Anchorage, AK
currently an Army "FutureSoldier",
signed up to leave for bootcamp and advanced infantry training in July 2009,
-alaska village tales-
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Subject: The One Who Asked
Date: Apr 26 10:14
Author: Abigail
I'm so sorry for the pain this process of helping out my son has caused you. I shouldn't have asked you and wouldn't have if I had known how painful it would be. I am crying for you and your experience and am thankful that you came out of it with a feeling of success.
Good luck FutureSoldier and stay safe.
Abigail
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Subject: Hey, there! I know a Din'e woman who was part of the IPP...
Date: Apr 26 10:26
Author: Beth
and she is not LDS. I don't know if she was baptized, etc., but when I met her, she was involved in Native rights and still bore scars from her time in the IPP. She has even been interviewed by NPR about her experiences. She's pretty visible, vocal and accessible, and I'm sure she would welcome contact from you. Would you like me to try to put you in touch with her?
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Subject: Re: Hey, there! I know a Din'e woman who was part of the IPP...
Date: Apr 26 10:41
Author: Abigail
Yes, that would be awesome and my son would appreciate it.
Can you give me the info on the board or do you want my email address?
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Subject: I'll email her and see what she says...
Date: Apr 26 10:57
Author: Beth
She was pretty damaged by the whole thing, so I don't know if she'd want to discuss it with someone who hadn't been through it. I'm sorry if I replied in the wrong place, but my question was directed to theSam!! and not to you. I hope I don't sound exclusionary or rude, but some of those kids were so traumatized that they went back to the rez and never left if they could avoid it. My friend became a vocal activist, and even though she gave an interview to NPR, I'm not so sure she's in an emotional place where she wants to talk about it anymore. Case in point: I've known her since 1999, and we have never discussed her time in the IPP. The only reason I know she was part of the program is because a mutual friend told me and told me how horrible her experience had been (in generalities -- no specifics).
So, please feel free to give me your email address, explain your son's project, and I'll reach out to her. Maybe have him write the email that I can forward to her.
Here's a link to the NPR story (a lot of the participants decided to stay in the church): http://www.homelands.org/worlds/saints.html
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Subject: Re: I'll email her and see what she says...
Date: Apr 26 11:06
Author: Abigail
I debated whether your reply was for me or theSam!! My mistake. I'll just have my son go to the link you cited and let him take if from there. I don't want to be responsible for bringing pain to anyone else. Thanks for the information.
Abigail
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Subject: No problem -- and seriously, I don't mind contacting her
Date: Apr 26 11:26
Author: Beth
Also know that the producers of the NPR program had a hard time finding non-LDS IPP folks to interview, so the program is a little skewed because most of the folks they found stayed in the church and bear their testimonies. It's sad to hear some of them say that they accepted that their brown skin was punishment for their ancestors turning away from God. There's a hint of self-loathing in some of what they say. And the fact that they were taught to not participate in their native religious ceremonies when they went home for the summer put some of them in a bind. They had to choose to turn their backs on their cultures or to lie to their foster families, and they were pretty young to be put in that position.
If your son wants to write a balanced paper, I am more than happy to try to get him in touch with my friend. My only caveat is that she might not be willing to talk about it. But that's her decision to make, not mine. Please do feel free to give me your email address, and I'll write to you off the board (my email address reveals my last name). And *you* would not be causing her pain. That already happened, so don't feel responsible for how she might react. Okay?
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Subject: Another thing he might do is check out Indian Country Today...
Date: Apr 26 12:19
Author: Beth
http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/ They may have written an article about the program, or they might let him write a letter to the editor requesting interviews with IPP participants.
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Subject: Re: Another thing he might do is check out Indian Country Today...
Date: Apr 26 18:38
Author: Abigail
Beth, I will direct my son to this thread and let him give you his email if he decides he wants to. Thank you for your help and information.
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Subject: Poor Sammy....(((hugz))) ...
Date: Apr 26 11:27
Author: notamomo
There was an IPP girl who lived with the family of a peer of mine (I wouldn't go so far as to call her a friend) that was in my ward.
We were all in YW together. I don't think she was treated very well by that family and other rude, white Mo-Mo children on the playground (this is in Utard, of course) teased her and excluded her.
She was very shy. I was her friend, but then I was pretty much shunned by all the stuck-up bishopprick daughters too.
Sam, my heart goes out to you.
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Subject: Re: Dormant Memories of LDS Indian Placement Years
Date: Apr 26 12:11
Author: theSam!!
Abigail.
It's ok. You've done nothing wrong. So don't worry.
Beth.
I've seen the NPR link and listened to your friend.
But the site link is saved on my OLD tower, and not on this newer pc tower of mine,
I'm IBM raised!! and like towers, I'm not a Mac person!! d:oP
anyways.
I contacted these people back in 2001 or 02 and got a reply from someone, we'll contact you if we're interested, or something like that.
No worrys about anything. Cos, I'm alright and I'm sure the rest of us IPP students are alright, because the Initial pain is past and what lingers is just discomfort that we've put away, and I'll put mine away again.
Remember to not contribute to other childrens pain if you can help it. cos they'll remember it forever.
Thanks to all concerned.
I'mma walk to mcdonalds and eat some breakfast, enjoy the spring weather that is now Alaska.
take care everyone.
*hugs*
lovs,
theSam!!
slflyinghorse
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Subject: The Sam!!: I just wish you peace! n/t
Date: Apr 26 18:40
Author: Abigail
Mail Address:
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Subject: Thanks for sharing Sam!
Date: Apr 26 18:33
Author: Diapason
All of us learn from you. It is important for white people (including me) to know and understand the difficulties that Native Americans experienced at the hands of white people. You are a remarkable person. I am sorry for what you went through. You have handled your difficulties with dignity. I salute you. Thanks again for sharing and helping me to be more aware.
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Subject: Re: Dormant Memories of LDS Indian Placement Years
Date: Apr 26 23:31
Author: IMNOMO
Sam,
While I am a regular reader of the posts on this site, it has been awhile since I have seen anything worth replying to, but I found your story worth the read and the reply.
First, let me say thank you. Your choice to become part of the military in this time of uncertainty shows your deep level of commitment to defending our beautiful country and the people who occupy it - people who have frequently been less than kind and supporitve of Our Native Peoples, of the military and all things your rich history represents.
Second, as my screen name implies I am a Nevermo who grew up in Utah. My perception of the "laminite" program is very different than yours, and I hope you will indulge me. I have many friends - both LDS and (now) not LDS friends that have ties to this program. Some as "laminites" some as host families. And over the years, I have been able to dig, discuss and digest more than I ever wanted to know about this part of LDS life.
As I listen to the stories told by my friends (Navajo), their stories sound very similar to your yours - abuse, pain, molestation, rape, at the hands of the familes that were to care for them, and end in the same way, with a justification or an its-ok-because-it-could-have-been-worse-if-I-had-stayed-on-the-reservation ending. Hmmm....
I say no, maybe, perhaps...in all matters related to LDS, Inc. you were duped and dumped. And for this you have my sympathies. You were (IMO) a pawn on a very unlevel playing field.
In the same way the natives were treated during the settlement of whites in America, you were treated by the church. "Indians are savages. They need to be cultured." "They are dumb, we need to educate them." Etc, etc. We know these things to be untrue - our native peoples read, wrote, spoke, communicated with each other. They had their own languages, gathered, hunted and cooked their own food. They had remedies that the white man never knew - and has now only begun searching for. (Look up quinine...)
You deserved better, and you sell yourself (and your people) short to imply that reservation life = a godless life of alcoholism. I agree that you need to stay away from the hooch - so do I, and so do the millions of other people that may have a propesity for abuse (whatever the cause!). But had you stayed on the reservation, close to the people of your birth, you would have had all the same opportunites that you have chosen to exercise now (military life, family, etc.) and you could do it with a better understading of who you are to pass to your children. Your language, your customs, your art, your science, your heritage. Go back now, take the time to learn it - talk to your grandfathers and the ancients, you will find them there waiting to talk back to you. Visit museums where old collections are held - and don't let the white man's labels tell you the function of the objects at hand- for they don't know, for they never used them.
My criticisms of the "Laminite" programs are many...
1) There is no such thing as a "Laminite" and for God's sake drop this word that was made up by Joseph Smith from your vocabulary.
2) The program was one-sided, "We must save the Indians!" all the while tying their rich history, language and culture to the railroad tracks to be salvaged later. Their perception is that the white mans ways were better. Yikes!They NEVER took the time to learn about the children they fostered and communicated their history to them.
3) All were physically abused in some way. Many sexually.
4) The LDS did not take in the Natives because they wanted to help them - they did it for the "blessings." This is self-serving. They learned NOTHING of the native culture of the children they fostered.
5) My girlfirend and I scoff at the way some were treated, and we simply refer the children as "pet Indians". It is a slam to the hosts not the hosted, for they treated the children as dogs - collect the affections and then turn them out. Do not include them in family photos, do not take them on vacations, do not do more than is required by the church. And for god's sakes don't let them scratch themselves in public - in other words be who you really were/are. Parade the pretty pony for the public, then send it to the basement to sleep without light or heat.
Do you see what I am saying? You are worth more that what you have been given - by our government, by your parents, by your tribe, by your church, by your host family. Find yourself - your real self - and you will find you are MAGNIFICENT - a man worthy of GREAT things. You are not a laminite - you are a Native American of the ______tribe of peoples. Indeed, if you were Navajo you would simply be Dine = THE PEOPLE. The only ones. Now, that's powerful.
Soar high, Flyinghorse, your journay to the stars is only now beginning.
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Subject: Re: Dormant Memories of LDS Indian Placement Years
Date: Apr 27 00:01
Author: anon
Samuel, you are a success. You now have the wisdom to go back in memory and face the pain. You can talk to and nurture that little child in the dark. You pobably don't realize how your pain from your past effects your behavior today. Now that you have allowed that pain to resurface, you can sort through it and dismantle it. This task was a good thing.
Good Luck, Soldier!
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Subject: Free Cab Ride to the Top . . . (nt)
Date: Apr 27 16:51
Author: SL Cabbie
Mail Address:
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Subject: Re: Dormant Memories of LDS Indian Placement Years
Date: Apr 27 18:48
Author: Leah
From what I could see as a kid in California, the Lamanite program placed a terrible strain on the fmilies who participated.
These families were mostly guilted into taking in the kids, when the last thing they needed was more mouths to feed and more responsibility.
It also caused additional stress on many marriages.
My mother totally refused to do it, although the bishop kept hounding them about. Her attitude was that if she's wanted more than three kids she would have had them lol.
My mother's close friend already had seven kids and she could not say no to the morg.Big mistake.
The girl they got was sexually experienced and kept coming on to boys,it was a mess.
My mother was too nice to tell her "I told you so" lol.
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Subject: Re: Dormant Memories of LDS Indian Placement Years
Date: Apr 27 21:25
Author: TOPPER N/T
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Subject: Cheers
Date: Apr 28 00:16
Author: Gidget
I rarely post, but read off and on. Your posts are always an inspiration. (I daresay poetry most of the time.) May good luck follow you in all of your ambitions.
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