Taking Issue Is Detrimental To Faith?!
this is from some one elses Blog that I answered to and was Censored at.
Note, that theSam!! will not Censor peoples response at HIS own blog, unlike this blogger that theSam!! answered.
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Here is what I posted in it's entirety. And was censored.
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Subject: Re: "taking issue" with being censored.
Date: Feb 05 10:46
Author: theSam!!
fwiw, here's my censored posts from mrTan!!
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3. theSam!! Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
February 4th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
(a long post)
It’s not that some of us have left theChurch, but that the church left us.
It’s not that some of us are lazy or without faith, but that Others in the church Are, are too lazy to help us and without faith in themselves.
Were it not so, perhaps a Nephite sister missionary friend of mine (whom btw, is in her mid 40’s in Midvale UT and still waiting!!) would have continued to do her part of honoringPriesthood and honoring her Womanhood the way she kept professing to do and “wanted to do for a man such as I” (her words) and would have been templeMarried to me,
but your so called true church apparently has “issue” with people of race and color NOT being lilly white and living in Utah,
Your own White people have said, that us Indians are blessed and chosen, yet you don’t trust us and if you don’t believe me, how come your GA’s or other 70 are NOT brown, or red, black or yellow to balance out things equally if your so called church is really of god?
You seem to think that only Morgdom has Insight and access to Diety and that is false.
I know some alaskaNatives, some traveling musicians, some homeless drunks that do more to help mankind around them than any of your LDS people do-here in anchorage.
As for your apt descriptions of “hardened countenances” upon sinful “spiritless” people.
You should be with me in lds services when ever I smile at or even look at some singleLady or youngWoman,
cast your eyes around and you’ll see “hardenedMasks” of disapproval and contempt from theWhite folk,
my first stepDad was Mormon, his kindly parents were German immigrants and I saw as an infant, and felt from an intimate perspective on things how most whites look upon people of color,
In time, my grandparents grew to love me and my siblings, those first white people in my life were capable of hard looks but it also came from “Life”, as well, you are aware of Climate and other conditions of living. Understand, that these people were also close to God as they knew him to be.
Maybe you overlook theFat, Morbidly obese mormons in your own ward and stake sir,
ever stop and think that one of those young 15 or 16 yr old girls NOW looks her best and is currently in the best shape of her life!?
cos by College / or Mission age, she’s going to lose skin elasticity, tonicity and orangePeel all over like her Mother and probably get bigger!! than her mother before she’s 22,
Look at “her”, or “them girls” for a moment and tell me if you do not see a “mask” as well, a deadSkin mask that looks ahead to a life of education-lessness, years of boredom at home and doing nothing but expecting her husband or Others to entertain her,
Not that there’s anything wrong with all of this, but you need to comment upon your own first before thinking you can take on Us who’ve left theCrutch for greener pastures, for happier days, for more trials and problems, for true Peace and Prosperity.
as for my present female friends and intimate companionship, I’ll take a real human being who’s been educated, is working and is “trying” at least to be balanced in life….. as well as being in Great shape too.
I choose to be away from your moneyWorshipping Cult, I choose to be away from your selfish conditional Elohim and his plastic sideKick Jehovah!!, You can keep your exclusive temple club sir. I don’t need a Bakers hat to know my place in theUniverse.
And I don’t need to look to my Left, to see theVieled and covered women and how we LDS men really are shown, how “Taliban-esque” like the women are to be seen and treated. I prefer equality.
The God and Christ I know, and have seen “personally” throughout my own life are loving, are unconditional and could care less about money. Unlike your cult’s obsession with extorting it’s membership every month for financial gain and support.
And speaking from a former LawEnforcement officer perspective, We couldn’t do anything to thePublic until we had “Officially” gone through training, whether it was to Interview, or Photograph, or Write reports, to save Life, to fight Fires, for Firearms etc.
Your cult’s practice of putting layMembership in charge of someone else’s moral & spiritual welfare, like calling Bishops, StakePresidents, even Missionaries!! whom all have Not a Clue what to do when faced with other people’s problems is an Issue,
That from my perspective, contributes greatly to many LDS family problems from WithIn and it bleeds out into Society at large. I’ve never been burned by a Bishop tattling some minor problem of mine or some childhood fears, like some MorgLeaders have done in embarrassing their layMembership in breaking confidentiality, but I’m just saying.
Get with the times, get everyone in Morg leadership trained, licensed, bonded etc to fully function as an Org instead of just having theBlind leading theBlind and harming each other. In my current daily life, I’m a Barista and get a kick out of how childish and immature Parents can be, when treating their own kids and keeping them InLine!! when ever I approach with a sample tray of Hot chocolate or Coffee and Pastries for anyone to sample.
Your church sequesters everyone and doesn’t expose them to real life, real events and to real people.
I know this because I was an LDS Indian Placement program student for a while.
Thanks for posting. Lets hope you don’t censor anything of ours that we answer to you.
always, Abel
(my Temple name)
Samuel L Flyinghorse, Hunkpapa Lakota and exMormon RM
Anchorage, AK
http://alaskavillagetales.blogspot.com
Google:
theSam!!
Samuel L Flyinghorse
SLFlyinghorse
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funny how this Other blogger didnt remove anything related to theTemple!!
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Taking Issue is Detrimental to Faith
by User Imagemwarbinek ~ January 19, 2008
One day, while in Church, a bishop, stake president or one of the General Authorities of the Church says or does something that upsets you or that you take issue with it. Before you know it you are at odds with the Church and even resign your membership.
Taking issue is dangerous to the health of your faith.
Let’s try another example. You read something about the Church and you become upset or concerned for yourself, not for the Church. You begin, through your upset to ask questions pertaining to what you read and no answers are found to satisfy you. In a huff, you leave the Church or at the least become inactive. Since that time (which may end up as a long time) you held that grudge and upset and have not returned to the Church. In your anger, resentment, upset or disappointment, you reject the call by your home teachers or from your bishop, maybe even withdraw your fellowship from your Mormon friends.
Does this sound familiar to you?
Taking issue is dangerous to the health of your faith and will destroy everything good about it which includes the loss of the companionship of the Holy Ghost because you have accepted and taken the spirit of contention as your companion. There is no room for the Holy Ghost within you and the Holy Spirit does not fellowship or work in the same room as the spirit of contention. There is a definite high risk and danger to “taking issue”.
Read the scriptures and see the results when a person takes issue with something about the Lord or his Church. The spirit of ill faith sets in and darkness begins to seed itself into the heart. That is speaking from the position of the gospel, but let me speak from the position of life itself.
Have you been in a room or same place as another who constantly complains, harps, contends, argues, debates, with you or others and against anything else? Do you feel peace in the room or in that place? Are such aggravated people easy to speak to or interact with? Is there reasoning with this person? The answer to all of these questions is “Nay”. Such a person becomes a thorn, a bitter presence. There is no reasoning with this person, no common ground existing between you and he (or she).
Alright, you may say that he/she has a legitimate concern or beef and that is reasonable. Allow me to move this into a scenario that may just enlighten you to the true nature of taking issue.
Your marriage is with a spouse that constantly argues with you, disagrees with you and works contrary to what you do, even contrary to any believed agreement of something. How good does this marriage appear to you now? Is it joyful, peaceful, productive and does it feel like a true partnership to you? Do you see my point?
If, as you read this, say to yourself that both you and your spouse have agreement to the issue and there is no argument, but you complain to each other about what you agreed about, is there peace? The answer is still Nay and why is this? Taking issue and living and choosing from it causes a person to become hardened, even to him/herself. In such a state and person will not realize that they have fallen.
Sometimes a person needs a third neutral party to tell them that they have gone astray and they come off as hard, cold and bitter.
In all cases when a person takes issue and bites into it deeply and hard, he/she becomes ravenous. The perpetual looping state begins and this is the dark pit a person falls into. If a person begins to realize they have become dark and begin to feel the heaviness and darkness, that to them it will appear as impossible to overcome and from that, can fall again, but into despair and misery. It is truly a very dark place to be and those who are in that state, be it still battling the issue or in bitter despair will fall to all kinds of dark and evil ways. I know this to be true, both from the inside of it and as a third neutral party.
Staying in that dark place for too long, accustomization to that state begins and soon enough it will be almost impossible to get out. Ever wonder why Satan is so twisted as he is? Spiritual darkness that is filled with hate, anger, resentment, dispisement etc, has a way to contort a person’s mind. As there is no peace in Satan’s mind and heart, neither shall there be in yours if you choose to live by those issues you so dearly think are important to keep.
I have experienced the side of “taking of issue” and know that it is not good at all, irrespective of the issue. The Spirit of God is absent, there is no guidance from the Holy Ghost and darkness prevails in the process of thought. Everything becomes hard and who is really affected here? - you, the doer of taking issue is the one affected and anyone who is close to you. The Church is not affected because it will carry on and others will experience and enjoy the companionship of the Holy Ghost while you are living your choice of issue.
I have experienced the side of a neutral observer, feeling at peace with my life and the Church as I have experienced a couple who are always taking issue with things, complaining, arguing about things as a “couple” joined in issue. It is unpleasant and hard on the ears to have to constantly listen or hear bitter complaint of this or that. I can relate to their upset, yet I can also see that they have dug themselves a perpetual rut that is gradually becoming a pit. Taking issue is never a good thing and it is detrimental to faith and the Spirit of Christ that is within you.
In all this “taking of issue”, it will degrade your life and this degradation will also have an effect on your physical appearance, over time. Eventually, you can appear unkempt or in a disarray. Then your health will begin to follow this downward spiral. Your home or place of abode will begin to appear as if issue lives there with you. The sad part is that since you are immersed into the issue, in your mind and heart, issues that remain unresolved because of hate, anger, etc, you will not be able to perceive the lessening of your life unless something really obvious appears.
Order in life does not exist in the state of issue since issue is a state of “discord”. Over time, if you hold onto the pattern or practice of taking issue your face will become hardened as well. Eventually, the “spirit” of softness has long left.
Do you think I am lying about this? I say this because I have seen it happen to people I know. It is not a good sight. It was frustrating to me because of free will, I cannot choose for them, they must choose to change.
A life example of such hardness to the body is seen in those who live in “harsh” climates. Their hardness has come from outside them, with issue it comes from within, but the results are the same. Is it any wonder God used examples of life to explain the affect and meaning of his word?
Taking concern about something and being able to do something about it is not the “issue” I speak of here. This is where you have the power to deal with the issue and resolve it. The issue I speak of here that is dangerous to your faith and life is the type that you have no power to change or is the type that you carried in your own mind and heart, waiting for justification to come out, but still no means to resolve it. This type of issue is the detrimental one, the one that will destroy your faith and connection with God.
These issues are the type where you are against something in the Church, be it something read or experienced. It is something that was bred, for example, by a sour encounter with another and you continue to hold issue against him or her, even after all these months or years. It is these that seem unresolvable because they are dependent on another party and so long as that party does not change or do something about your issue, he/she, or it, will remain the focus of bitterness and resentment. The sad part is, you suffer for it, no matter how justified you claim to be.
It is hard to change once locked into the cycle of issue taking, but it is not impossible to change. With the kind of issue taking that is detrimental, it is resolvable, but only for you, not for any other. This means to resolve it happens for you by your own choices and actions. Do not expect the “other” person to accept it.
The best thing a person can do is to halt any further “issue taking” and take hold of it at the onset. Move to resolve, even if it applies just to you and seek the guidance of the Holy Ghost. The best way to resolve this issue for yourself is to act peaceably and humble thyself, irrespective of the issue and be patient with the coming of the answer. People who claim that they prayed about their issues and received no answer, only to fall deeper into the issue, are those who have failed to humble themselves to hear the Spirit of God. Do not forget the word “endure”. Taking issue from anger or hate builds a contentious rebellious heart. One day of prayer may not be sufficent to humble yourself enough for to warrant God’s intervention. Be patient endure, pray, do good and help will arrive, even if that help is to humble you.
Now, if some say that the Holy Ghost confirmed their issue and they followed the issue as if it was gospel, are those who have listened to their own ill spirit or that of Satan. The Holy Ghost does not confirm issues because it does not partake of “contention”, no matter how a person may feel justified.
Patience is a virtue and extremely important to your faith. Many a time I had to wait a long time before God gave the needed insight to resolve an issue and the main reason for this apparent delay was because I had to change first before I was ready to receive the insight or personal revelation (the seed parable applies here). Personal righteousness is paramount to keeping that door open for the Holy Ghost, even to hear him. Personal virtue is an important tool to maintain faith. Personal testimony is the most vulnerable and if this goes, so does faith.
Taking issue is destructive and some have even lost their marriages and families to divorce because of it. Marriages have died because one spouse is bent on taking issue as more important than securing the relationship. Harm to your children occurs as well. Some may think that taking issue saves the children from a wrong Church, but this is not true. A parent taking issue and living on it without resolving that issue for themselves shows a child a wicked way to live and be assured that child will suffer that practice in their adulthood as the doer of it or victim of it (I speak from my own childhood experience on this). The “tradition of the fathers”, as read in the gospel pertaining to wickedness applies here.
Stick to the things of good faith, be patient and do what is needed to resolve the issue. You cannot force another to resolve something, but you can lead yourself to peace, even if the issue remains alive elsewhere or with another. Pray often, seek the counsel of the Lord always, and as a secondary move, seek the counsel of the bishop and/or from your assigned home teacher. I will speak more about “issue”, as there is a fair amount to relate to you, but please for the sake of your faith and family, do not take issue with things that are out of your control, for Satan cannot do his work through issues that you can resolve, he will do his work through issues you cannot resolve and that is where the spirit of misery exists.
Mark
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12 Responses to “Taking Issue is Detrimental to Faith”
1. no imageHeidi (Check me out!) Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Since leaving the mormon church I have only known peace and happiness. My 30+ years in the church were rife with turmoil and contention. I can only assume that what u meant by only having issues that can be resolved would apply to my situation. My membership in the church was an ‘issue’ and thereby caused me all the problems u sited, leaving the church made it a non-issue and now my life is flourishing with peace and happiness. In your oppinion, is my peace, prosperity, and happiness just a clever ploy of Satan somehow?
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2. no imagemwarbinek (Check me out!) Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Heidi, the answer I give depends on your belief and faith that this Church is true and the restored gospel is of God. If you still believe that these things are true, then comes your answer.
In Matthew 13:21 & John 15:18-19, this speaks of those who join the Lord’s Church, that because of the truth, the gospel, the Lord’s Church, as all those apply to the truth, tribulation and affliction is a sure thing. Unfortunately, many will choose not to endure these things and work to resolve them and instead fall away (quit). I also read an article where a LDS writer, Stephen E. Robinson, in his book “Following Christ: The Parable of the Divers and More Good News, Chapter 5, Hazards of To Endurance”, stated that Satan will first abuse and harass as part of his works to attack your faith. This is where faith and enduring is very important.
To deal with personal issues can take time and a lot of times if the issue involves another person who refuses to budge, it can be frustrating, but in all of this the one thing that is absolutely important, is your faith and to remain steadfast in it.
You mentioned that the issue pertained to your membership. If this issue speaks of the hardship between you and your family, for example, this is where you need to make a choice (See Matthew 19:29). Will the choice be for God or for the family member? Will choosing God mean that you abandoned or leave your family, without extreme circumstances the answer is NO.
Which one will give you eternal life and which will get you condemned (excluded from the Celestial Kingdom). It is unfortunate, but to some, these “either / or” choices are a reality. This does not mean you have to leave your family, what it means is that if you choose faith, then you choose to remain with the Church. The next move of what the family member does or does not do is up to them, you then continue to “choose the right”.
Now about happiness. Please read my article entitled “Happiness out of the Church?” (http://mormondirection.com/WordPress/?p=83).
Essentially Heidi, it is easy to avoid and ignore your own issues and not make any effort to resolve them. You will feel some relief, but that is temporary until these issues replay themselves in some other form. Consider, that it is also relief to stop digging yourself out and putting the shovel down, the fact remains that nothing has been achieved and real peace lies in the finishing of the matter, not in the avoidance of it. Strength comes for standing in the faith, not abandoning it. This peace you speak of, and I can relate to this because I also experienced similar things, is a false peace.
The “peace of the world” is always temporary and certainly offers no real stability, because it is temporarily based. This means when the world gets darker, Satan imposing more pressure, this peace you speak of will fall away and without the protection of faith, life will no longer feel stable and sure. True peace is feeling secure and stable while facing discord around you. All the temporal prosperity means nothing in itself and peace should never be rooted in it. I suggest that looking at the current collapsing of the economy is proof temporal peace is false and it was based on sand, not the rock of God.
Heidi, faith is foremost and not all of us will be continually happy or have continual prosperity in this life. It comes and goes, ups and downs and so on. So long as you continue as a member of the Church, in true faith to God, you will have the Holy Ghost beside you helping if you ask for help. I say this as a witness to you, trust in the Lord.
And…Yes, Satan can impart a false sense of peace, but all of that is temporally based and based in the flesh with the focus to “appease” you.
If you wish me to comment on some detail of these issues, please send your questions to me via my contact form and I will reply by email directly to you. I will not post anything sent in private.
Mark
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3. no imagetheSam!! (Check me out!) Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
(a long post)
It’s not that some of us have left theChurch, but that the church left us.
It’s not that some of us are lazy or without faith, but that Others in the church Are, are too lazy to help us and without faith in themselves.
Were it not so, perhaps a Nephite sister missionary friend of mine (whom btw, is in her mid 40’s in Midvale UT and still waiting!!) would have continued to do her part of honoringPriesthood and honoring her Womanhood the way she kept professing to do and “wanted to do for a man such as I” (her words) and would have been templeMarried to me,
but your so called true church apparently has “issue” with people of race and color NOT being lilly white and living in Utah,
Your own White people have said, that us Indians are blessed and chosen, yet you don’t trust us and if you don’t believe me, how come your GA’s or other 70 are NOT brown, or red, black or yellow to balance out things equally if your so called church is really of god?
You seem to think that only Morgdom has Insight and access to Diety and that is false.
I know some alaskaNatives, some traveling musicians, some homeless drunks that do more to help mankind around them than any of your LDS people do-here in anchorage.
As for your apt descriptions of “hardened countenances” upon sinful “spiritless” people.
You should be with me in lds services when ever I smile at or even look at some…(Comment Removed - Inappropriate References)
cast your eyes around and you’ll see “hardenedMasks” of disapproval and contempt from theWhite folk,
my first stepDad was Mormon, his kindly parents were German immigrants and I saw as an infant, and felt from an intimate perspective on things how most whites look upon people of color,
In time, my grandparents grew to love me and my siblings, those first white people in my life were capable of hard looks but it also came from “Life”, as well, you are aware of Climate and other conditions of living. Understand, that these people were also close to God as they knew him to be.
(Comment Removed - Inappropriate References)
(Comment Removed - Inappropriate References)
(Comment Removed - Inappropriate References)
Not that there’s anything wrong with all of this, but you need to comment upon your own first before thinking you can take on Us who’ve left theCrutch for greener pastures, for happier days, for more trials and problems, for true Peace and Prosperity.
(Comment Removed - Inappropriate References)
I choose to be away from your moneyWorshipping Cult, I choose to be away from your selfish conditional Elohim and his plastic sideKick Jehovah!!, You can keep your exclusive temple club sir. I don’t need a Bakers hat to know my place in theUniverse.
And I don’t need to look to my Left, to see theVieled and covered women and how we LDS men really are shown, how “Taliban-esque” like the women are to be seen and treated. I prefer equality.
The God and Christ I know, and have seen “personally” throughout my own life are loving, are unconditional and could care less about money. Unlike your cult’s obsession with extorting it’s membership every month for financial gain and support.
And speaking from a former LawEnforcement officer perspective, We couldn’t do anything to thePublic until we had “Officially” gone through training, whether it was to Interview, or Photograph, or Write reports, to save Life, to fight Fires, for Firearms etc.
Your cult’s practice of putting layMembership in charge of someone else’s moral & spiritual welfare, like calling Bishops, StakePresidents, even Missionaries!! whom all have Not a Clue what to do when faced with other people’s problems is an Issue,
That from my perspective, contributes greatly to many LDS family problems from WithIn and it bleeds out into Society at large. I’ve never been burned by a Bishop tattling some minor problem of mine or some childhood fears, like some MorgLeaders have done in embarrassing their layMembership in breaking confidentiality, but I’m just saying.
Get with the times, get everyone in Morg leadership trained, licensed, bonded etc to fully function as an Org instead of just having theBlind leading theBlind and harming each other. In my current daily life, I’m a Barista and get a kick out of how childish and immature Parents can be, when treating their own kids and keeping them InLine!! when ever I approach with a sample tray of Hot chocolate or Coffee and Pastries for anyone to sample.
Your church sequesters everyone and doesn’t expose them to real life, real events and to real people.
I know this because I was an LDS Indian Placement program student for a while.
Thanks for posting. Lets hope you don’t censor anything of ours that we answer to you.
always, Abel
(my Temple name)
Samuel L Flyinghorse, Hunkpapa Lakota and exMormon RM
Anchorage, AK
http://alaskavillagetales.blogspot.com
Google:
theSam!!
Samuel L Flyinghorse
SLFlyinghorse
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4. no imagemwarbinek (Check me out!) Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Mr Sam:
Your comment is filled with bias and hate. Your viewpoints are false and based on your deep seeded bigotry. This Church has no issue with races and any member who acts as a bigot should be reported to the Bishopric of his stake. Just because you fail to understand the reasons for past decisions by the Presidency, gives no reason or justification for such claims by you.
You claim that no race other than whites are in the General Authority, Seventies or Church Government, and this is outright ignorance on your part. Positions given to members to act withing the General Authority or any of the Seventies, or even Bishopric. Blacks, Chinese, etc hold various positions of leadership in the Church. But…to be selected **requires solid faith and proper character** in order for the selection to be approved by God. Such has no bearing on race or color. I see that this faith and character does not show up in your comment.
Read about the Black members of this Church - http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/blackmormon/000H14.html
Here is another link about races in the LDS Church - http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081016141548AAJBCua
Also, I removed your references made to young women, it was completely inappropriate.
As to my comments on beliefs that attack this Church - I stand in them and for them. My presence in the Church was Spirit led. You show the choice of selfishness and pride to lead your choice, but that is free will.
Amen
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5. Timothy Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 6:52 am
Funny thing, mwarbinek. I’ve been out of the Mormon cult for over thirty-years, yet still haven’t gotten around to all that robbing, raping and killing I’m supposed to do!
Do you really need a God or a church to tell you that you shouldn’t engage in such practices?
This is the Gospel according to Timothy … Why do we never get an answer when we’re knocking on the door?
Timothy
6. WCG Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
I’m sorry. I just don’t believe what you are saying. IF a person decides to opt out of LDS, Inc., what’s it to you? The Constitution of the United States garantees each of us freedom of and from Religion. If a person wants out of LDS, Inc. FOR ANY REASON, it is their right to do so. And quite frankly, I think YOUR countenance could use some softening! Why are YOU so hateful against people who leave LDS, Inc.?
7. no imagemwarbinek (Check me out!) Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
You misunderstood my article and misunderstand the purpose to this blog. The central intent of my posts are to help members of this Church, next help those who have become inactive or resigned their membership and are starting to question their move. Inclusive, is to help any person who does research about the value of this Church and comes across my blog.
The information presented is with actual experiences, proper study, insights and from the teaching of the gospel and by the Spirit. This blog is for those who are seeking input to help them and they have every right to be here. Those who do not wish input and care-less of this Church, have every right “not” to be here. My article addresses those people who choose to leave the Church and then turn around trying to instill their confusion and their discord into other members and sincere ex-members. What I defend against is the violation against the same freedom that gives me and other sincere people the right to protect the faith against offenders of that freedom.
As to your claim of offense.
There is none, so please refrain from twisting this article into your personal issue.
I wish you the best.
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8. Timothy Says:
February 6th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Would it be too much trouble for you to disclose the “actual experiences” and “proper study” that led you to offer the following absolute:
“In all this “taking of issue” will degrade your life and this degradation will also have an effect on your physical appearance. In time you will appear unkempt or in a disarray. Your health will begin to follow this downward spiral. Your home or place of abode will begin to appear as if issue lives there with you. This is because ”order” does not exist in the state of issue. What exists in the state of issue is discord as issue is something in discord. Over time, if you hold onto the pattern or practice of taking issue your face will become hardened as well. By that time the “spirit” of softness has long left you. A life example of such hardness to body is seen in those who live in “harsh” climates. Their hardness has come from outside them, with issue it comes from within, but the results are the same. Is it any wonder God used examples of life to explain the affect and meaning of his word?”
My “first-hand” experience as a thirty-year ex-Mormon says you’re spreading lies. Nothing you describe in your supposed “statement-of-fact” has happened to me. How do explain that?
Timothy
9. no imagemwarbinek (Check me out!) Says:
February 7th, 2009 at 1:08 am
Mr. Timothy, I know who is really asking all these questions. Suddenly there is an inordinate amount of attention to this one blog entry by so many “names”, all addressing me in the same manner, all who conveniently have years of experience as a Mormon. By this, there will be no more comment allowed by you, who uses many false names to misrepresent your true intentions.
I will comment to one thing though, which will serve others who are asked the same kind of question based in - “this hasn’t happened to me.”
To each their own path of experiences with God, yet to most, that path is untravelled.
Church Membership alone, does not guaranttee anything without proper faith. Many will never experience the Holy Ghost because they choose not to. Many will not be afflicted, because their faith is insufficent to warrant spiritual changes, but these will fall in the latter days when the darkness arrives prior to the second coming because they refuse to prepare by the Spirit. Many will be unwilling to face their own shortcomings, by this they will not learn humbleness and have not the Spirit of Christ in them.
In all these people who are unwilling or uncaring, many uinfaithful or of little faith, many willingly choosing spiritual idleness, these have no call or place to discount the real and true spiritual experiences of those who are willing, caring, faithful and spiritually active (walking by the Spirit). It is this difference Dear Sir that brought you the experience of “this hasn’t happened to me”, you sowed what you reaped.
Years of membership means nothing when nothing was spiritually achieved, that is why the Lord spoke of the slothful servant parable and the idle worker in the vineyard.
Amen
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10. no imagemwarbinek (Check me out!) Says:
February 7th, 2009 at 1:19 am
Mr Timothy, faith is the number one reason for no answer coming from God, next is the unwillingness to listen, whether intentional or unintentional, next is the lack of proper obedience as in failing to do the spiritual work in your own life to warrant answers and last is the failing spiritual heart, one that ends up calling God’s Church a cult.
If you were really in this Church for thirty years, you made it mean nothing. God knew where you were headed long before you chose it, because of your heart. I would say then, Mr Timothy, that any lack of anything is not the fault of God, his Church or his gospel, but that fault truly lies with you. I am sorry to say all this, but your words clearly show where you come from within you.
Hope the best of peace to you.
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11. no imageTimothy (Check me out!) Says:
February 7th, 2009 at 6:11 am
I figured as much.
BTW, I’m a thirty-year Ex-Mo, meaning I’ve been iout of the CULT for thirty + years.
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12. no imagemwarbinek (Check me out!) Says:
February 8th, 2009 at 1:50 am
Sorry, but those who choose to reject the Church of God, and it is the real and true Church of God, chooses to depart from faith and chose to abandon Christ, for he will not know you in the day of reckoning.
Call all this what you want, but you’ll have to answer to God on it on the last day, but it was nice that you clarified that your membership wasn’t long if at all.
Good-Day
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Note, that theSam!! will not Censor peoples response at HIS own blog, unlike this blogger that theSam!! answered.
----------------------
Here is what I posted in it's entirety. And was censored.
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Subject: Re: "taking issue" with being censored.
Date: Feb 05 10:46
Author: theSam!!
fwiw, here's my censored posts from mrTan!!
-----------------------------
3. theSam!! Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
February 4th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
(a long post)
It’s not that some of us have left theChurch, but that the church left us.
It’s not that some of us are lazy or without faith, but that Others in the church Are, are too lazy to help us and without faith in themselves.
Were it not so, perhaps a Nephite sister missionary friend of mine (whom btw, is in her mid 40’s in Midvale UT and still waiting!!) would have continued to do her part of honoringPriesthood and honoring her Womanhood the way she kept professing to do and “wanted to do for a man such as I” (her words) and would have been templeMarried to me,
but your so called true church apparently has “issue” with people of race and color NOT being lilly white and living in Utah,
Your own White people have said, that us Indians are blessed and chosen, yet you don’t trust us and if you don’t believe me, how come your GA’s or other 70 are NOT brown, or red, black or yellow to balance out things equally if your so called church is really of god?
You seem to think that only Morgdom has Insight and access to Diety and that is false.
I know some alaskaNatives, some traveling musicians, some homeless drunks that do more to help mankind around them than any of your LDS people do-here in anchorage.
As for your apt descriptions of “hardened countenances” upon sinful “spiritless” people.
You should be with me in lds services when ever I smile at or even look at some singleLady or youngWoman,
cast your eyes around and you’ll see “hardenedMasks” of disapproval and contempt from theWhite folk,
my first stepDad was Mormon, his kindly parents were German immigrants and I saw as an infant, and felt from an intimate perspective on things how most whites look upon people of color,
In time, my grandparents grew to love me and my siblings, those first white people in my life were capable of hard looks but it also came from “Life”, as well, you are aware of Climate and other conditions of living. Understand, that these people were also close to God as they knew him to be.
Maybe you overlook theFat, Morbidly obese mormons in your own ward and stake sir,
ever stop and think that one of those young 15 or 16 yr old girls NOW looks her best and is currently in the best shape of her life!?
cos by College / or Mission age, she’s going to lose skin elasticity, tonicity and orangePeel all over like her Mother and probably get bigger!! than her mother before she’s 22,
Look at “her”, or “them girls” for a moment and tell me if you do not see a “mask” as well, a deadSkin mask that looks ahead to a life of education-lessness, years of boredom at home and doing nothing but expecting her husband or Others to entertain her,
Not that there’s anything wrong with all of this, but you need to comment upon your own first before thinking you can take on Us who’ve left theCrutch for greener pastures, for happier days, for more trials and problems, for true Peace and Prosperity.
as for my present female friends and intimate companionship, I’ll take a real human being who’s been educated, is working and is “trying” at least to be balanced in life….. as well as being in Great shape too.
I choose to be away from your moneyWorshipping Cult, I choose to be away from your selfish conditional Elohim and his plastic sideKick Jehovah!!, You can keep your exclusive temple club sir. I don’t need a Bakers hat to know my place in theUniverse.
And I don’t need to look to my Left, to see theVieled and covered women and how we LDS men really are shown, how “Taliban-esque” like the women are to be seen and treated. I prefer equality.
The God and Christ I know, and have seen “personally” throughout my own life are loving, are unconditional and could care less about money. Unlike your cult’s obsession with extorting it’s membership every month for financial gain and support.
And speaking from a former LawEnforcement officer perspective, We couldn’t do anything to thePublic until we had “Officially” gone through training, whether it was to Interview, or Photograph, or Write reports, to save Life, to fight Fires, for Firearms etc.
Your cult’s practice of putting layMembership in charge of someone else’s moral & spiritual welfare, like calling Bishops, StakePresidents, even Missionaries!! whom all have Not a Clue what to do when faced with other people’s problems is an Issue,
That from my perspective, contributes greatly to many LDS family problems from WithIn and it bleeds out into Society at large. I’ve never been burned by a Bishop tattling some minor problem of mine or some childhood fears, like some MorgLeaders have done in embarrassing their layMembership in breaking confidentiality, but I’m just saying.
Get with the times, get everyone in Morg leadership trained, licensed, bonded etc to fully function as an Org instead of just having theBlind leading theBlind and harming each other. In my current daily life, I’m a Barista and get a kick out of how childish and immature Parents can be, when treating their own kids and keeping them InLine!! when ever I approach with a sample tray of Hot chocolate or Coffee and Pastries for anyone to sample.
Your church sequesters everyone and doesn’t expose them to real life, real events and to real people.
I know this because I was an LDS Indian Placement program student for a while.
Thanks for posting. Lets hope you don’t censor anything of ours that we answer to you.
always, Abel
(my Temple name)
Samuel L Flyinghorse, Hunkpapa Lakota and exMormon RM
Anchorage, AK
http://alaskavillagetales.blogspot.com
Google:
theSam!!
Samuel L Flyinghorse
SLFlyinghorse
------------------------------------------
funny how this Other blogger didnt remove anything related to theTemple!!
-------------------------------------
Taking Issue is Detrimental to Faith
by User Imagemwarbinek ~ January 19, 2008
One day, while in Church, a bishop, stake president or one of the General Authorities of the Church says or does something that upsets you or that you take issue with it. Before you know it you are at odds with the Church and even resign your membership.
Taking issue is dangerous to the health of your faith.
Let’s try another example. You read something about the Church and you become upset or concerned for yourself, not for the Church. You begin, through your upset to ask questions pertaining to what you read and no answers are found to satisfy you. In a huff, you leave the Church or at the least become inactive. Since that time (which may end up as a long time) you held that grudge and upset and have not returned to the Church. In your anger, resentment, upset or disappointment, you reject the call by your home teachers or from your bishop, maybe even withdraw your fellowship from your Mormon friends.
Does this sound familiar to you?
Taking issue is dangerous to the health of your faith and will destroy everything good about it which includes the loss of the companionship of the Holy Ghost because you have accepted and taken the spirit of contention as your companion. There is no room for the Holy Ghost within you and the Holy Spirit does not fellowship or work in the same room as the spirit of contention. There is a definite high risk and danger to “taking issue”.
Read the scriptures and see the results when a person takes issue with something about the Lord or his Church. The spirit of ill faith sets in and darkness begins to seed itself into the heart. That is speaking from the position of the gospel, but let me speak from the position of life itself.
Have you been in a room or same place as another who constantly complains, harps, contends, argues, debates, with you or others and against anything else? Do you feel peace in the room or in that place? Are such aggravated people easy to speak to or interact with? Is there reasoning with this person? The answer to all of these questions is “Nay”. Such a person becomes a thorn, a bitter presence. There is no reasoning with this person, no common ground existing between you and he (or she).
Alright, you may say that he/she has a legitimate concern or beef and that is reasonable. Allow me to move this into a scenario that may just enlighten you to the true nature of taking issue.
Your marriage is with a spouse that constantly argues with you, disagrees with you and works contrary to what you do, even contrary to any believed agreement of something. How good does this marriage appear to you now? Is it joyful, peaceful, productive and does it feel like a true partnership to you? Do you see my point?
If, as you read this, say to yourself that both you and your spouse have agreement to the issue and there is no argument, but you complain to each other about what you agreed about, is there peace? The answer is still Nay and why is this? Taking issue and living and choosing from it causes a person to become hardened, even to him/herself. In such a state and person will not realize that they have fallen.
Sometimes a person needs a third neutral party to tell them that they have gone astray and they come off as hard, cold and bitter.
In all cases when a person takes issue and bites into it deeply and hard, he/she becomes ravenous. The perpetual looping state begins and this is the dark pit a person falls into. If a person begins to realize they have become dark and begin to feel the heaviness and darkness, that to them it will appear as impossible to overcome and from that, can fall again, but into despair and misery. It is truly a very dark place to be and those who are in that state, be it still battling the issue or in bitter despair will fall to all kinds of dark and evil ways. I know this to be true, both from the inside of it and as a third neutral party.
Staying in that dark place for too long, accustomization to that state begins and soon enough it will be almost impossible to get out. Ever wonder why Satan is so twisted as he is? Spiritual darkness that is filled with hate, anger, resentment, dispisement etc, has a way to contort a person’s mind. As there is no peace in Satan’s mind and heart, neither shall there be in yours if you choose to live by those issues you so dearly think are important to keep.
I have experienced the side of “taking of issue” and know that it is not good at all, irrespective of the issue. The Spirit of God is absent, there is no guidance from the Holy Ghost and darkness prevails in the process of thought. Everything becomes hard and who is really affected here? - you, the doer of taking issue is the one affected and anyone who is close to you. The Church is not affected because it will carry on and others will experience and enjoy the companionship of the Holy Ghost while you are living your choice of issue.
I have experienced the side of a neutral observer, feeling at peace with my life and the Church as I have experienced a couple who are always taking issue with things, complaining, arguing about things as a “couple” joined in issue. It is unpleasant and hard on the ears to have to constantly listen or hear bitter complaint of this or that. I can relate to their upset, yet I can also see that they have dug themselves a perpetual rut that is gradually becoming a pit. Taking issue is never a good thing and it is detrimental to faith and the Spirit of Christ that is within you.
In all this “taking of issue”, it will degrade your life and this degradation will also have an effect on your physical appearance, over time. Eventually, you can appear unkempt or in a disarray. Then your health will begin to follow this downward spiral. Your home or place of abode will begin to appear as if issue lives there with you. The sad part is that since you are immersed into the issue, in your mind and heart, issues that remain unresolved because of hate, anger, etc, you will not be able to perceive the lessening of your life unless something really obvious appears.
Order in life does not exist in the state of issue since issue is a state of “discord”. Over time, if you hold onto the pattern or practice of taking issue your face will become hardened as well. Eventually, the “spirit” of softness has long left.
Do you think I am lying about this? I say this because I have seen it happen to people I know. It is not a good sight. It was frustrating to me because of free will, I cannot choose for them, they must choose to change.
A life example of such hardness to the body is seen in those who live in “harsh” climates. Their hardness has come from outside them, with issue it comes from within, but the results are the same. Is it any wonder God used examples of life to explain the affect and meaning of his word?
Taking concern about something and being able to do something about it is not the “issue” I speak of here. This is where you have the power to deal with the issue and resolve it. The issue I speak of here that is dangerous to your faith and life is the type that you have no power to change or is the type that you carried in your own mind and heart, waiting for justification to come out, but still no means to resolve it. This type of issue is the detrimental one, the one that will destroy your faith and connection with God.
These issues are the type where you are against something in the Church, be it something read or experienced. It is something that was bred, for example, by a sour encounter with another and you continue to hold issue against him or her, even after all these months or years. It is these that seem unresolvable because they are dependent on another party and so long as that party does not change or do something about your issue, he/she, or it, will remain the focus of bitterness and resentment. The sad part is, you suffer for it, no matter how justified you claim to be.
It is hard to change once locked into the cycle of issue taking, but it is not impossible to change. With the kind of issue taking that is detrimental, it is resolvable, but only for you, not for any other. This means to resolve it happens for you by your own choices and actions. Do not expect the “other” person to accept it.
The best thing a person can do is to halt any further “issue taking” and take hold of it at the onset. Move to resolve, even if it applies just to you and seek the guidance of the Holy Ghost. The best way to resolve this issue for yourself is to act peaceably and humble thyself, irrespective of the issue and be patient with the coming of the answer. People who claim that they prayed about their issues and received no answer, only to fall deeper into the issue, are those who have failed to humble themselves to hear the Spirit of God. Do not forget the word “endure”. Taking issue from anger or hate builds a contentious rebellious heart. One day of prayer may not be sufficent to humble yourself enough for to warrant God’s intervention. Be patient endure, pray, do good and help will arrive, even if that help is to humble you.
Now, if some say that the Holy Ghost confirmed their issue and they followed the issue as if it was gospel, are those who have listened to their own ill spirit or that of Satan. The Holy Ghost does not confirm issues because it does not partake of “contention”, no matter how a person may feel justified.
Patience is a virtue and extremely important to your faith. Many a time I had to wait a long time before God gave the needed insight to resolve an issue and the main reason for this apparent delay was because I had to change first before I was ready to receive the insight or personal revelation (the seed parable applies here). Personal righteousness is paramount to keeping that door open for the Holy Ghost, even to hear him. Personal virtue is an important tool to maintain faith. Personal testimony is the most vulnerable and if this goes, so does faith.
Taking issue is destructive and some have even lost their marriages and families to divorce because of it. Marriages have died because one spouse is bent on taking issue as more important than securing the relationship. Harm to your children occurs as well. Some may think that taking issue saves the children from a wrong Church, but this is not true. A parent taking issue and living on it without resolving that issue for themselves shows a child a wicked way to live and be assured that child will suffer that practice in their adulthood as the doer of it or victim of it (I speak from my own childhood experience on this). The “tradition of the fathers”, as read in the gospel pertaining to wickedness applies here.
Stick to the things of good faith, be patient and do what is needed to resolve the issue. You cannot force another to resolve something, but you can lead yourself to peace, even if the issue remains alive elsewhere or with another. Pray often, seek the counsel of the Lord always, and as a secondary move, seek the counsel of the bishop and/or from your assigned home teacher. I will speak more about “issue”, as there is a fair amount to relate to you, but please for the sake of your faith and family, do not take issue with things that are out of your control, for Satan cannot do his work through issues that you can resolve, he will do his work through issues you cannot resolve and that is where the spirit of misery exists.
Mark
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12 Responses to “Taking Issue is Detrimental to Faith”
1. no imageHeidi (Check me out!) Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Since leaving the mormon church I have only known peace and happiness. My 30+ years in the church were rife with turmoil and contention. I can only assume that what u meant by only having issues that can be resolved would apply to my situation. My membership in the church was an ‘issue’ and thereby caused me all the problems u sited, leaving the church made it a non-issue and now my life is flourishing with peace and happiness. In your oppinion, is my peace, prosperity, and happiness just a clever ploy of Satan somehow?
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2. no imagemwarbinek (Check me out!) Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Heidi, the answer I give depends on your belief and faith that this Church is true and the restored gospel is of God. If you still believe that these things are true, then comes your answer.
In Matthew 13:21 & John 15:18-19, this speaks of those who join the Lord’s Church, that because of the truth, the gospel, the Lord’s Church, as all those apply to the truth, tribulation and affliction is a sure thing. Unfortunately, many will choose not to endure these things and work to resolve them and instead fall away (quit). I also read an article where a LDS writer, Stephen E. Robinson, in his book “Following Christ: The Parable of the Divers and More Good News, Chapter 5, Hazards of To Endurance”, stated that Satan will first abuse and harass as part of his works to attack your faith. This is where faith and enduring is very important.
To deal with personal issues can take time and a lot of times if the issue involves another person who refuses to budge, it can be frustrating, but in all of this the one thing that is absolutely important, is your faith and to remain steadfast in it.
You mentioned that the issue pertained to your membership. If this issue speaks of the hardship between you and your family, for example, this is where you need to make a choice (See Matthew 19:29). Will the choice be for God or for the family member? Will choosing God mean that you abandoned or leave your family, without extreme circumstances the answer is NO.
Which one will give you eternal life and which will get you condemned (excluded from the Celestial Kingdom). It is unfortunate, but to some, these “either / or” choices are a reality. This does not mean you have to leave your family, what it means is that if you choose faith, then you choose to remain with the Church. The next move of what the family member does or does not do is up to them, you then continue to “choose the right”.
Now about happiness. Please read my article entitled “Happiness out of the Church?” (http://mormondirection.com/WordPress/?p=83).
Essentially Heidi, it is easy to avoid and ignore your own issues and not make any effort to resolve them. You will feel some relief, but that is temporary until these issues replay themselves in some other form. Consider, that it is also relief to stop digging yourself out and putting the shovel down, the fact remains that nothing has been achieved and real peace lies in the finishing of the matter, not in the avoidance of it. Strength comes for standing in the faith, not abandoning it. This peace you speak of, and I can relate to this because I also experienced similar things, is a false peace.
The “peace of the world” is always temporary and certainly offers no real stability, because it is temporarily based. This means when the world gets darker, Satan imposing more pressure, this peace you speak of will fall away and without the protection of faith, life will no longer feel stable and sure. True peace is feeling secure and stable while facing discord around you. All the temporal prosperity means nothing in itself and peace should never be rooted in it. I suggest that looking at the current collapsing of the economy is proof temporal peace is false and it was based on sand, not the rock of God.
Heidi, faith is foremost and not all of us will be continually happy or have continual prosperity in this life. It comes and goes, ups and downs and so on. So long as you continue as a member of the Church, in true faith to God, you will have the Holy Ghost beside you helping if you ask for help. I say this as a witness to you, trust in the Lord.
And…Yes, Satan can impart a false sense of peace, but all of that is temporally based and based in the flesh with the focus to “appease” you.
If you wish me to comment on some detail of these issues, please send your questions to me via my contact form and I will reply by email directly to you. I will not post anything sent in private.
Mark
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3. no imagetheSam!! (Check me out!) Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
(a long post)
It’s not that some of us have left theChurch, but that the church left us.
It’s not that some of us are lazy or without faith, but that Others in the church Are, are too lazy to help us and without faith in themselves.
Were it not so, perhaps a Nephite sister missionary friend of mine (whom btw, is in her mid 40’s in Midvale UT and still waiting!!) would have continued to do her part of honoringPriesthood and honoring her Womanhood the way she kept professing to do and “wanted to do for a man such as I” (her words) and would have been templeMarried to me,
but your so called true church apparently has “issue” with people of race and color NOT being lilly white and living in Utah,
Your own White people have said, that us Indians are blessed and chosen, yet you don’t trust us and if you don’t believe me, how come your GA’s or other 70 are NOT brown, or red, black or yellow to balance out things equally if your so called church is really of god?
You seem to think that only Morgdom has Insight and access to Diety and that is false.
I know some alaskaNatives, some traveling musicians, some homeless drunks that do more to help mankind around them than any of your LDS people do-here in anchorage.
As for your apt descriptions of “hardened countenances” upon sinful “spiritless” people.
You should be with me in lds services when ever I smile at or even look at some…(Comment Removed - Inappropriate References)
cast your eyes around and you’ll see “hardenedMasks” of disapproval and contempt from theWhite folk,
my first stepDad was Mormon, his kindly parents were German immigrants and I saw as an infant, and felt from an intimate perspective on things how most whites look upon people of color,
In time, my grandparents grew to love me and my siblings, those first white people in my life were capable of hard looks but it also came from “Life”, as well, you are aware of Climate and other conditions of living. Understand, that these people were also close to God as they knew him to be.
(Comment Removed - Inappropriate References)
(Comment Removed - Inappropriate References)
(Comment Removed - Inappropriate References)
Not that there’s anything wrong with all of this, but you need to comment upon your own first before thinking you can take on Us who’ve left theCrutch for greener pastures, for happier days, for more trials and problems, for true Peace and Prosperity.
(Comment Removed - Inappropriate References)
I choose to be away from your moneyWorshipping Cult, I choose to be away from your selfish conditional Elohim and his plastic sideKick Jehovah!!, You can keep your exclusive temple club sir. I don’t need a Bakers hat to know my place in theUniverse.
And I don’t need to look to my Left, to see theVieled and covered women and how we LDS men really are shown, how “Taliban-esque” like the women are to be seen and treated. I prefer equality.
The God and Christ I know, and have seen “personally” throughout my own life are loving, are unconditional and could care less about money. Unlike your cult’s obsession with extorting it’s membership every month for financial gain and support.
And speaking from a former LawEnforcement officer perspective, We couldn’t do anything to thePublic until we had “Officially” gone through training, whether it was to Interview, or Photograph, or Write reports, to save Life, to fight Fires, for Firearms etc.
Your cult’s practice of putting layMembership in charge of someone else’s moral & spiritual welfare, like calling Bishops, StakePresidents, even Missionaries!! whom all have Not a Clue what to do when faced with other people’s problems is an Issue,
That from my perspective, contributes greatly to many LDS family problems from WithIn and it bleeds out into Society at large. I’ve never been burned by a Bishop tattling some minor problem of mine or some childhood fears, like some MorgLeaders have done in embarrassing their layMembership in breaking confidentiality, but I’m just saying.
Get with the times, get everyone in Morg leadership trained, licensed, bonded etc to fully function as an Org instead of just having theBlind leading theBlind and harming each other. In my current daily life, I’m a Barista and get a kick out of how childish and immature Parents can be, when treating their own kids and keeping them InLine!! when ever I approach with a sample tray of Hot chocolate or Coffee and Pastries for anyone to sample.
Your church sequesters everyone and doesn’t expose them to real life, real events and to real people.
I know this because I was an LDS Indian Placement program student for a while.
Thanks for posting. Lets hope you don’t censor anything of ours that we answer to you.
always, Abel
(my Temple name)
Samuel L Flyinghorse, Hunkpapa Lakota and exMormon RM
Anchorage, AK
http://alaskavillagetales.blogspot.com
Google:
theSam!!
Samuel L Flyinghorse
SLFlyinghorse
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4. no imagemwarbinek (Check me out!) Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Mr Sam:
Your comment is filled with bias and hate. Your viewpoints are false and based on your deep seeded bigotry. This Church has no issue with races and any member who acts as a bigot should be reported to the Bishopric of his stake. Just because you fail to understand the reasons for past decisions by the Presidency, gives no reason or justification for such claims by you.
You claim that no race other than whites are in the General Authority, Seventies or Church Government, and this is outright ignorance on your part. Positions given to members to act withing the General Authority or any of the Seventies, or even Bishopric. Blacks, Chinese, etc hold various positions of leadership in the Church. But…to be selected **requires solid faith and proper character** in order for the selection to be approved by God. Such has no bearing on race or color. I see that this faith and character does not show up in your comment.
Read about the Black members of this Church - http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/blackmormon/000H14.html
Here is another link about races in the LDS Church - http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081016141548AAJBCua
Also, I removed your references made to young women, it was completely inappropriate.
As to my comments on beliefs that attack this Church - I stand in them and for them. My presence in the Church was Spirit led. You show the choice of selfishness and pride to lead your choice, but that is free will.
Amen
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5. Timothy Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 6:52 am
Funny thing, mwarbinek. I’ve been out of the Mormon cult for over thirty-years, yet still haven’t gotten around to all that robbing, raping and killing I’m supposed to do!
Do you really need a God or a church to tell you that you shouldn’t engage in such practices?
This is the Gospel according to Timothy … Why do we never get an answer when we’re knocking on the door?
Timothy
6. WCG Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
I’m sorry. I just don’t believe what you are saying. IF a person decides to opt out of LDS, Inc., what’s it to you? The Constitution of the United States garantees each of us freedom of and from Religion. If a person wants out of LDS, Inc. FOR ANY REASON, it is their right to do so. And quite frankly, I think YOUR countenance could use some softening! Why are YOU so hateful against people who leave LDS, Inc.?
7. no imagemwarbinek (Check me out!) Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
You misunderstood my article and misunderstand the purpose to this blog. The central intent of my posts are to help members of this Church, next help those who have become inactive or resigned their membership and are starting to question their move. Inclusive, is to help any person who does research about the value of this Church and comes across my blog.
The information presented is with actual experiences, proper study, insights and from the teaching of the gospel and by the Spirit. This blog is for those who are seeking input to help them and they have every right to be here. Those who do not wish input and care-less of this Church, have every right “not” to be here. My article addresses those people who choose to leave the Church and then turn around trying to instill their confusion and their discord into other members and sincere ex-members. What I defend against is the violation against the same freedom that gives me and other sincere people the right to protect the faith against offenders of that freedom.
As to your claim of offense.
There is none, so please refrain from twisting this article into your personal issue.
I wish you the best.
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8. Timothy Says:
February 6th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Would it be too much trouble for you to disclose the “actual experiences” and “proper study” that led you to offer the following absolute:
“In all this “taking of issue” will degrade your life and this degradation will also have an effect on your physical appearance. In time you will appear unkempt or in a disarray. Your health will begin to follow this downward spiral. Your home or place of abode will begin to appear as if issue lives there with you. This is because ”order” does not exist in the state of issue. What exists in the state of issue is discord as issue is something in discord. Over time, if you hold onto the pattern or practice of taking issue your face will become hardened as well. By that time the “spirit” of softness has long left you. A life example of such hardness to body is seen in those who live in “harsh” climates. Their hardness has come from outside them, with issue it comes from within, but the results are the same. Is it any wonder God used examples of life to explain the affect and meaning of his word?”
My “first-hand” experience as a thirty-year ex-Mormon says you’re spreading lies. Nothing you describe in your supposed “statement-of-fact” has happened to me. How do explain that?
Timothy
9. no imagemwarbinek (Check me out!) Says:
February 7th, 2009 at 1:08 am
Mr. Timothy, I know who is really asking all these questions. Suddenly there is an inordinate amount of attention to this one blog entry by so many “names”, all addressing me in the same manner, all who conveniently have years of experience as a Mormon. By this, there will be no more comment allowed by you, who uses many false names to misrepresent your true intentions.
I will comment to one thing though, which will serve others who are asked the same kind of question based in - “this hasn’t happened to me.”
To each their own path of experiences with God, yet to most, that path is untravelled.
Church Membership alone, does not guaranttee anything without proper faith. Many will never experience the Holy Ghost because they choose not to. Many will not be afflicted, because their faith is insufficent to warrant spiritual changes, but these will fall in the latter days when the darkness arrives prior to the second coming because they refuse to prepare by the Spirit. Many will be unwilling to face their own shortcomings, by this they will not learn humbleness and have not the Spirit of Christ in them.
In all these people who are unwilling or uncaring, many uinfaithful or of little faith, many willingly choosing spiritual idleness, these have no call or place to discount the real and true spiritual experiences of those who are willing, caring, faithful and spiritually active (walking by the Spirit). It is this difference Dear Sir that brought you the experience of “this hasn’t happened to me”, you sowed what you reaped.
Years of membership means nothing when nothing was spiritually achieved, that is why the Lord spoke of the slothful servant parable and the idle worker in the vineyard.
Amen
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10. no imagemwarbinek (Check me out!) Says:
February 7th, 2009 at 1:19 am
Mr Timothy, faith is the number one reason for no answer coming from God, next is the unwillingness to listen, whether intentional or unintentional, next is the lack of proper obedience as in failing to do the spiritual work in your own life to warrant answers and last is the failing spiritual heart, one that ends up calling God’s Church a cult.
If you were really in this Church for thirty years, you made it mean nothing. God knew where you were headed long before you chose it, because of your heart. I would say then, Mr Timothy, that any lack of anything is not the fault of God, his Church or his gospel, but that fault truly lies with you. I am sorry to say all this, but your words clearly show where you come from within you.
Hope the best of peace to you.
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2.9
11. no imageTimothy (Check me out!) Says:
February 7th, 2009 at 6:11 am
I figured as much.
BTW, I’m a thirty-year Ex-Mo, meaning I’ve been iout of the CULT for thirty + years.
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12. no imagemwarbinek (Check me out!) Says:
February 8th, 2009 at 1:50 am
Sorry, but those who choose to reject the Church of God, and it is the real and true Church of God, chooses to depart from faith and chose to abandon Christ, for he will not know you in the day of reckoning.
Call all this what you want, but you’ll have to answer to God on it on the last day, but it was nice that you clarified that your membership wasn’t long if at all.
Good-Day
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